Hurdy-gurdy
- Range
- G2–G6
- Sources
- 1210 independent: not from a mic maker
What it is
A bowed-by-wheel string instrument: a hand-cranked rosined wheel rubs the strings like a violin bow while a keyboard of tangents shortens the melody strings. Also called wheel fiddle, vielle a roue, drehleier. Drone strings give a bagpipe-like sound. French six-string models have two melody and four drone strings.14
Range
French vielle in G/C ('vielle en Sol'): the chromatic keyboard spans two octaves, G4-G6, and the two chanterelles (melody strings) and the mouche are tuned to G4; the trompette (buzzing string) to C5, the petit bourdon to C3 and the gros bourdon to G2. The page writes notes in scientific pitch (its G4 is the chanterelle on a violin string, its G2 the gros bourdon on a cello string). A vielle in D runs D4-D6 on the keyboard with drones on D3 and D2. Source is a French school study site, not a maker. Sebastian Hilsmann (maker) gives a trompette tuned to C3 as an example, so drone and trompette tunings vary between players.
Tuning: Wikipedia: in later instruments tunings vary widely, 'with equal temperament most common'; drones switch on or off to play in two keys (e.g. C and G, or G and D).14
- Drones (zanfona in C): bordon in C, 'two octaves below middle C' (C2); bordoncino in G one octave below the melody strings (G3). Octave numbers are my conversion.14
- Vielle in D (D/G tuning): Keyboard D4-D6; first chanterelle D5, second chanterelle, trompette and mouche D4 (the mouche sometimes A), petit bourdon D3, gros bourdon D2.13
- Alto keyboard, 2.5 octaves (Traunecker): Joel Traunecker (maker) builds an alto keyboard of two and a half octaves, open strings in G one octave below a classic soprano vielle; he says it equals a classic keyboard with its top half-octave removed and an octave added below. G3 is my reading of 'one octave below' the soprano's G4; C#6 is G3 plus 30 semitones (my calculation). He also describes tenor keyboards of three octaves.15
The sound
Wheel-driven strings drive a soundboard and a hollow body. A loose bridge under one drone string, the chien ("dog"; the festival blog below calls the buzzing bridge the "trompette"), buzzes against the soundboard when the wheel speeds up, giving a percussive buzz; a control peg (the tirant) sets how much, from "sec" to "gras".14,11
Where the sound goes
No measurement. The body and soundboard radiate and the buzzing bridge adds noise from the soundboard. Players place mics by string group: one engineer's advice (via a forum post) is a warm large condenser 4-5 ft in front, moved until drone, chien and chanterelles balance, since up close the chien or a chanterelle can jump out; a stage player puts a clip mic on the lid above the chanterelles and wants a second mic on the drones; a maker aims his clip above the bridge, toward the drones rather than the chien.14,3,12,7
About the range
Most modern instruments have 24 keys spanning two chromatic octaves on the melody strings. A French vielle in G/C: keyboard G4-G6, the two chanterelles (melody strings) and the mouche on G4, the trompette (the string that buzzes on the chien) on C5, petit bourdon C3 and gros bourdon G2, so G2-G6 in all; a vielle in D runs D4-D6 with drones on D3 and D2. A study site, not a maker; drone and trompette tunings vary (Hilsmann gives a trompette on C3 as an example). Alto keyboards of two and a half octaves sit an octave lower, from about G3 (Traunecker; the top note, about C#6, is my calculation).14,13,8,15
Recording it
- Distant: a U 67, U 47 or TLM 170 about 4-5 ft in front; a Rode NT2 1 m above the instrument; forum suggestions of ribbons (Beyer M160 close; AEA R92 or N22 close with an R84 further back), MD 441/431 dynamics at 2-3 ft, or a close dynamic for the mechanical noise blended with a condenser further off.
- Stereo: Lasse Lammert recorded M/S with a Beyer M160 as the mid at about 40 cm and an AKG C414 as the side; a renaissance-music session put a pair of AKG C451 above the instrument to damp key noise, then preferred a wider pair of Beyer M201 dynamics as "warmer, clearer and more honest"; a C414 or a pair of small condensers backed off only in a good room.
- Two close mics: one near the bridge at the front, one over the player's right shoulder pointing down at the chien.3,1,2,4,5
Mics
- 32 setups from 12 sources, 10 of them independent of any mic maker.
- On top: the mics more than one source names for this instrument, in any role, the most named first. That is a count of sources, not our verdict.
- In the full list, each mic shows how many sources name it for that role, and how many of those come from a mic maker.
- AKG C414 2 sourcesMain pair or array, close
- beyerdynamic M 160 2 sourcesClose
All the mics sources name, by setting and role (25)
Studio
Overhead
- Rode NT21 source
Main pair or array
- AKG C4141 source
- Behringer ECM80001 source
- Neumann KM 1841 source
- Neumann TLM 170 (earlier version of the Neumann TLM 170 R)1 source
- Neumann U 471 source
- Neumann U 671 source
- Studio Projects C41 source
Stereo pair
Clip-on
- Sennheiser e 6081 source
Close
- AEA R841 source
- AEA R92 or AEA N221 source
- AKG C4141 source
- Beyerdynamic M 2011 source
- Beyerdynamic M1602 sources
- Sennheiser MD 441 or MD 4311 source
M/SStereo pair
The 17 setups behind this: placement and quotes
- Overhead Rode NT2overhead, about 1 m above the instrument
studiodhorlebaix: "j'ai placé un rode nt2 à 1 metre au-dessus"; small angle changes matter little at that distance.
1 - Main pair or array Neumann KM 184main, placement not given
Falavor: "un très bon statique doit pouvoir s'en sortir...genre un km184".
1 - Clip-on Sennheiser e 608clip-on, two mics on the instrument, searching for the best spot
Anonymous poster: two e608s, "tu peux essayer de les placer sur la vielle en cherchant bien l'emplacement".
1 - Close Beyerdynamic M160close, suggested to tame the spikes of the chanterelles
A suggestion, not a reported session: the poster says he has never tried it on hurdy-gurdy (paraphrase).
2 - Close AEA R92 or AEA N22close, a ribbon closer in
Suggests an R92 or N22 closer and an R84 further back (paraphrase); a suggestion, not a reported session.
2 - Close AEA R84distant, further back than the close ribbon
R84 further back (paraphrase); a suggestion, not a reported session.
2 - Close Sennheiser MD 441 or MD 431distant, 2-3 ft away
MD441/431 dynamics work even at 2-3 ft (paraphrase); a suggestion, not a reported session.
2 - Close Lewitt hypercardioid large-diaphragm condenserdistant, 10 in to 4 ft, blended with a dynamic very close for the mechanical noises
A dynamic very close for the noises plus a condenser further away, blended to taste (paraphrase); a suggestion.
2 - Main pair or array Behringer ECM8000 or AKG C414main, placement not given
Harvey Gerst: it "should do a great job" on hurdy gurdy or bagpipe, under $40 (paraphrase). ... Richard Monroe used a C414 on hurdy gurdy, crumhorn and portable organ with "very acceptable results".
3 - Main pair or array 2 × Studio Projects C4pair, small-diaphragm stereo pair, backed off a little only in a good room
Richard Monroe: a C-4 pair; back the mics off "a little, but only if you have a good room" (paraphrase).
3 - Close small-diaphragm condenserclose, near the bridge at the front of the instrument
piper spice: one mic pointing "near the bridge at the front of the instrument" (two-mic setup).
3 - Overhead small-diaphragm condenseroverhead, over the player's right shoulder, pointing down at the chien
piper spice: second mic "over the player's right shoulder, pointing down at the chien".
3 - Main pair or array Neumann U 67 or Neumann U 47 or Neumann TLM 170 (earlier version of the Neumann TLM 170 R)main, about 4-5 ft in front; move it to balance drone, chien and chanterelle
darkwillow quoting engineer Frederic Salter: a warm large-diaphragm condenser (U67, U47 or TLM170) at about 4-5 feet gives warmth without close-mic problems (paraphrase).
3 - Close 2 × Beyerdynamic M 160pair, M/S: mid mic at about 40 cm (would use about 4-5 ft for a pure folk band)
"for the Mid channel I used a ribbon mic (Beyer m160)"; "about 40cm or so" to cut through heavy guitars; 4-5 ft for a folk band.
4 - Close 2 × AKG C414pair, M/S: side mic at about 40 cm
"for the side channels I used an AKG c414" - Mid-Side, "a criminally underused technique".
4 - Room 2 × AKG C451 (earlier version of the AKG C451 B)pair, above the instrument (to damp key-press noise); cardioid for a very reverberant room
"a pair of AKG C451 condenser cardioids microphone set above the instrument" to dampen key presses in a reverberant room.
5 - Close 2 × Beyerdynamic M 201pair, set at a wider angle than the C451 pair
The M201s "allowed us to obtain a warmer, clearer and more honest sound quality" than the C451 setup.
5
On stage
Contact
- AKG C4111 source
- Schertler STAT-V1 source from a mic maker
- Shadow SH7111 source
Stereo pair
Clip-on
- Audio-Technica ATM351 source
- Audio-Technica ATM3501 source
- DPA 40991 source
- JTS CX-5081 source from a mic maker
- Shure Beta 981 source
Close
- Sennheiser e 8651 source
- Shure SM571 source
The 15 setups behind this: placement and quotes
- Contact AKG C411contact, on the instrument
Elysio10: "Le C411 de chez AKG" - a violinist friend used it on stage with fairly decent results; doubts it survives loud amps nearby (paraphrase).
6 - Contact Shadow SH711contact, piezo on the instrument (needs a preamp)
Elysio10: "capteur piezo (comme le shadow SH711)" isolates the vielle from other sources but needs a preamp (paraphrase).
6 - Clip-on JTS CX-508clip-on, clipped on the tailpiece, aimed above the bridge, more to the drone side than the dog (chien)
"plus du côté des bourdons que du chien" - a very good sound, per the maker (paraphrase).
7 - Contact Schertler STAT-Vcontact, on the bridges for chanterelles, trompettes and drones; STAT-CS for the sympathetic strings; 3- or 4-channel preamp with separate outputs
Pickup system built into his instruments: one Schertler STAT per string group, a +pro blue box with separate outputs on a 7-pin Neutrik (paraphrase).
8 - Clip-on DPA 4099 or Audio-Technica ATM350clip-on
"clip on mics will do, such as the DPA4099 or atm350"
9 - Contact 2 × piezo pickupinternal, two piezos glued and clamped under tension on the first brace under the soundboard, either side of the wheel axle, midway between bridge foot and the drone / trompette strings
"deux micros pièzo classiques" on the first brace, "montés sous tension (ce qui assure une meilleur linéarité de réponse)"; picks up the whole instrument, not single strings.
10 - Clip-on clip-on condenser near the sound holes or bridgeclip-on
Clip-on condenser mics near the sound holes or bridges move with the performer; ensure consistent pickup even if the player sways.
11 - Close hypercardioid small-diaphragm condenser, 30-60 cm away on a boomclose stand, still player
A hypercardioid small-diaphragm condenser about 30-60 cm from the instrument can focus on the output while rejecting stage noise.
11 - Multi-mic plan pickup or contact mic via DI, blended with a micpickup + mic
A blend of a pickup (for stability and bass) and a mic (for natural air and detail) yields the best result.
11 - Close Shure SM57close, taped to the body (caisse); move per venue
asr: the rustic solution "ça fait un SM57 gaffé sur la caisse"; change the mic position depending on the room (paraphrase).
12 - Close Sennheiser e 865close, position adjusted per venue
asr preferred a condenser such as a Shure Beta or Sennheiser e865 (under 250 EUR) over the SM57 (paraphrase).
12 - Clip-on Audio-Technica ATM35clip-on
Erix: "un micro sur pince" - an ATM35 (used) or its successor ATM350, "qualité légèrement en dessous".
12 - Clip-on Shure Beta 98clip-on, on the lid (capot) above the chanterelles
Malo: "placé sur le capot au dessus des chanterelles", wood resonance helped; better "au moins un micro pour le bourdon et un micro pour les chanterelles".
12 - Close second microphone for the dronesclose, separate mic for the drone (bourdon) strings, mixed separately from the chanterelle mic
Malo: ideally at least one mic for the bourdon and one for the chanterelles, mixed separately (paraphrase).
12 - Contact Schertler bridge pickupcontact, on the bridge (chevalet)
Lucien: "j'ai une cellule Schertler sur mon chevalet, qui fonctionne très bien".
12
Advised against
- Close Shure SM57close, placement not given
studiodhorlebaix: "Je te déconseille franchement le 57 pour la vielle."
1 - Close air microphone (any)close, air mic in a metal band
kojejefroots: "Je déconseille vivement les micros dans un groupe de métal" - feedback and bleed; "Le piezzo est plus fonctionnel".
6 - Close Superlux PRA383close, placement not given
Original poster: the current Superlux PRA383 "ne sert à rien" on stage with a metal band.
6 - Main pair or array Behringer ECM8000main, placement not given
Richard Monroe: "I find the self noise of the Behringers excessive and distracting" (others disagreed).
3 - Close large-diaphragm condenserclose
Salter via darkwillow: up close the chien or chanterelle can suddenly jump out depending on the piece; EQ chien around 6-10 kHz, chanterelle 600 Hz-1 kHz (paraphrase).
3 - Clip-on lavalier (micro-pastille)clip-on
YvesD: "j'utilise parfois un micro-pastille : pas vraiment top".
12
On stage
- Clip-on mics follow the player: Shure Beta 98 on the lid above the chanterelles, Audio-Technica ATM35/ATM350, a JTS CX-508 clipped on the tailpiece; forum mentions of the DPA 4099 (snippet only). A Ticket Fairy festival blog suggests a clip-on near the sound holes or bridge, or a hypercardioid small condenser 30-60 cm away on a boom for a still player.
- Pickups: makers build them in. Hilsmann fits Schertler STAT pickups per string group (chanterelles, trompettes, drones; STAT-CS for the sympathetic strings) into a 3- or 4-channel preamp with separate outputs; Weichselbaumer offers a 5-channel system with 3-4 mics and 2 magnetic pickups (snippet only); a luthier glues two piezos on the first brace. One maker's electromagnetic pickup takes one string only, without the wolf notes a piezo or mic picks up from the whole body. Players report a Schertler on the bridge working well and an AKG C411 or Shadow SH711 piezo on stage. A band rider puts the vielle on a DI.
- With a loud band, players advise against air mics (feedback and bleed) and for a piezo.12,7,9,11,8,16,10,17,6,18
Problems to watch
Crank and key noise; the buzz spiking; drone strings feeding back with stage monitors. Key noise is worst on a close or small-condenser pair; the chien or a chanterelle jumps out on a close mic; an SM57 is warned against for vielle in the studio and a lavalier "pas vraiment top"; air mics feed back next to a metal band.11,5,3,1,12,6
Sources
- Audiofanzine forum: Quels micro pour enregistrer vielle à roue, cornemuse et accordéon diatonique (2005)
- Gearspace: Mic locker for home studio (thread on recording a hurdy-gurdy, 2017-2019; poster bicarbone)
- HomeRecording.com forum: mic for recording hurdy gurdy / bagpipe (2004)
- Ultimate Metal forum: Recording a Hurdy Gurdy (Lasse Lammert, 2011)
- Filippo Deorsola: Hurdyin' an' Gurdyin', or the sorrows of recording a renaissance instrument (2016)
- Audiofanzine forum: Sonoriser une vielle à roue sur scène (2017)
- Bernard Loffet: Micro pour accordéon (maker of accordion mic systems; page also covers vielle à roue)
- Drehleierwerkstatt (Sebastian Hilsmann, maker): Drehleier Extras
- Reddit r/BuildaGurdy: Hurdy gurdy pickup
- Sons et couleurs (luthier build log): Naissance d'une vielle à roue
- Ticket Fairy blog: Mic'ing the Unusual at Folk Festivals (kora section; unsourced blog)
- Tradzone forum: sonorisation de vielle (2008-2014)
- La vielle à roue (study site), IV. Comment utiliser et jouer de la vielle à roue
- Wikipedia, Hurdy-gurdy
- Vielles Traunecker (maker), Clavier Alto
- Weichselbaumer (maker), model pages
- hurdy-gurdy.org.uk, Cyclops pickup (maker)
- Anach Cuan, fiche technique (band rider)